Still grading papers, so not much to say tonight. I’ve been taking breaks over at the Invisible Adjunct’s place again; as usual, the debates there get me thinking, but the Adjunct’s a much more civil and generous respondent than Anon, who found himself so unable to respond to my debunking every single one of his arguments in this thread (basically, his position is that economic factors make no difference between schools like Swarthmore and Big State U) that he was reduced to name-calling. At which point the discussion ceased to be interesting.
But I will cop to being a little peevish towards Hana in the current thread. As I’ve shown with that peevishness and with my recent embarassing contention with Charlie at Kairosnews, I’m overly quick to argue. I often wish I wasn’t, especially in the context of grad school and academia.
Hey, as my Mom always said to my brother and I–and possibly everyone else’s mother has said to siblings–“it takes two to argue” 🙂
And while on the one hand, I think that we tend to think sometime that we should have some kind of scientific emotional detachment at scholars, as writing teachers, our discussions are often ideologically centered. Passion has an important place in writing effective prose.
Besides, notice what happens. In order for you and I to reconcile our differences, we had to empathize more with the other’s point of view. Each had to resolve slightly the ideological conflict. Without the slight heatedness of the exchange, neither of us probably would have gained as much insight since this would never have occurred. Good stuff. 🙂
While traveling recently, I picked up a copy of Dale Carnegie’s “How to Win Friends and Influence People.” Although the book is dated and geared towards the business world, chapter after chapter suggested applications to the world of academe. We are so conditioned in grad school to win arguments — but then when I got into a facutly position, collegiality becomes the norm. Thus, Carnegie suggests things like give in on lots of minor points in order to let the other guy feel comfortable giving in to satisfy the one or two big things that you simply won’t let go of. And even if you concede a point that might go either way, the people around are more likely to remember your graciousness than whatever it is you lost your argument about.
Mike, don’t kick yourself too hard. At least you offer intelligent insight (I assume you do anyhow; it’s not like I read it, ha) to the conversation and sometimes, these conversations are just too inciting to stay calm. That’s one of the things I really admired about the IA site though is her classiness in remaining civil and neutral, often in the face of juvenile “did too” “did not” type of arguments.
Good point, Charlie. The incremental moves towards common ground were, well, interesting to say the least, and educative, and seem to go along well with what Dennis mentions from Carnegie. And, Dennis, I think grace in concession is important, except there are cases — as with Anon — where I feel like I’m being tossed an argument that’s simultaneously offensive, ignorant, and so easily refuted as to be nearly beyond belief that I can’t let it go.
But of course, I ultimately did, and Anon found another anonymous poster who’d happily help him reinforce the blindness of privilege. By that point, we were the only ones participating in the thread, so it was just kind of a hollow relief, no real graciousness.
If I hadn’t left IA right this minute, I was going to “pull a Mike” (i.e. rip someone a new one). 😉
Maybe you should stay away from there for a while lest you totally lose it. Folks like you and me who despise the elitist attitudes we’ve been reading are now stealing money from students as well as being responsible for grade inflation apparently.
Jeesh!
Of course you know I’d hurry on over there as soon as I saw what you wrote, Cindy. 🙂
It makes me sad that an educator can see good reasons for denying education to some students. But it’s hardly uncommon: just look at Erin “White Power” O’Connor.
Yes, I knew you’d go over there, but I thought a little foresight might be a good thing.
As my significant other insists, one can’t argue with stupidity, so I’m done with this one. My stress level is too high.